Game 17: Ohio State at Michigan Open Thread

vogrich[1]

Most of the Michigan blogosphere is concerned with some football coach that was introduced today. However, there is a basketball tonight that’s more important than the coach that may or may not be introduced at halftime. Michigan hosts Ohio State for a unique (or maybe common on the BTN?) 6:30 pm tip off tonight at Crisler Arena.

Ohio State is the vaunted number two team in the nation but Michigan will be looking for the upset in the rivalry game. The full game preview lives here and you can enter our new contest here. You can also find our pregame videos with John Beilein and with the players from Tuesday afternoon.

Join the conversation as we discuss the game in the comments of this thread.

  • Alex

    This is not over yet.

  • wayman britt

    Must omit OSU is the real deal. They are loaded.

  • Skinzkid

    Sweet airball Stu

  • Dylan Burkhardt

    No home court whistle for Michigan.

  • CJD

    That fast 3 from Smot was a terrible decision.

    • wayman britt

      It’s these little bad decisions that are keeping us from winning these games. Morris is good, but makes dumb decisions, then when Smot and Stu do also it just adds up.

  • mgocanada

    Douglass’ airball problem is what causes me to make petulant statements about starting Carlton Brundidge next year. The other thing that bothers me in games like this is JB’s unwillingness to give Horford bigtime minutes. We need him in these late foul-trouble situations — the small line has hurt us in both these close games.

  • maxwell’s demon

    Really could have made this a game down the stretch with better shot selection. Bad long two by morris, the quick Smot 3, then Stu’s shot, plus Morgan’s missed fts.

  • Alex

    Play these last minutes tough. Stu will be back sooner or later.

  • steve

    that wasnt off sullinger?

  • Scott S

    I love this team! Win or lose this team is good enough to make the tournament. It’s amazing to think about how low expectations were coming into this season.

  • mgocanada

    pardon the caps but: THAT LOB WAS OFF SULLINGER 100% — REFS GIVING IT TO OSU

  • maxwell’s demon

    Isaac Newton says that was off sullinger

  • kevin

    i know this is off base but does anybody know what the style of jersey was called when jamal crawford was at u of m (with just the M on the front)? good game again, hopefully they can pull this one out.

  • CJD

    McClimans jumps higher routing for his team mates than he does for a rebound while playing.

    • mgocanada

      yes

  • wayman britt

    How come the last two games we don’t get any calls on our home court

  • Scott S

    Go for 3 or 2? here?

  • steve

    seriously… its like a home court advantage for the visiting team… when were ranked #2 i want these calls too

  • Dylan Burkhardt

    That last call on Smotrycz was unreal. Ref went like he was going to say inadvertent whistle… then decided awwww whatever, I’ll call a foul.

  • wayman britt

    Maybe Beilein should be more vocal with the refs, so we can get some calls on our home court.

    • Jeff

      I actually think that hurts us, guys like Izzo and Ryan are in the refs ear all game and it definitely has an effect.

  • Scott S

    Or get fouled shooting a 3?

  • mgocanada

    hmmm that’s a good way to win, bring in a guy who never plays down 2 with 22 secs left against the no. 2 team in the country

    • Dylan Burkhardt

      Can’t have Smotrycz foul with four. Pretty simple really.

    • steve

      its so metrics or morgan doesnt pick up their fifth foul

    • bubba

      on top to evan and jordan having 4 fouls, colton is one of the more athletic players on the team..which matters when playing man to man on an inbounds.

      • CJD

        What leads you to believe that Colton is such GREAT athlete? Certainly not by anything he has done in a Michigan uniform.

        • Matt

          Um, tapes of him being a great athlete. Apparently those videos of him showing athleticism have no bearing once he wears a Michigan jersey. It’s just a clean slate.

  • mgocanada

    aw junk

  • maxwell’s demon

    worst officiated game i’ve seen this season

  • wayman britt

    UM needs to stay positive. If we keep playing like this we will get some wins.

  • Skinzkid

    Michigan def. fights hard, we just aren’t experienced enough right now to find ways to win these games against great teams. Love the future of this team though.

  • Alex

    They played well. They need to have confidence and take it to our next few opponents. Win these next two games and you can be very proud of this five game tough segment of the schedule.

  • mgocanada

    Mich played tough against KU and OSU, much better than anyone expected — they’ve neutralized star players left and right: Benson, Selby, Sullinger. More than anything, they’ve beaten themselves on the offensive end with inconsistent scoring. We need to take this strong play and annihilate Indiana and Northwestern. This team can beat Tubby’s Gophers too, no excuses.

  • ATLblue

    You have to like the way they defended Sullinger. The mix between defenses really rattled Ohio State and Kansas

  • Scott S

    If we go 9-9 in conference or 10-8, do these close losses together (Syr, KU, OSU) help us get in the tourney or are they just 3 more losses? I know it will help our RPI but do you think the selection committee will put any weight into these close losses? If you look at the teams on the various NCAA Tourney Bubble Watches its ridiculous how weak these teams are.

    • Dylan Burkhardt

      Minimal effect at best. And it won’t really change the RPI, the RPI is simply based on wins and losses. RPI is simply:

      (Winning Percentage * 0.25) + (Opp WP * 0.50) + (Opp Opp WP * 0.25)

    • mgocanada

      let’s just worry about getting to 10-8… in this extremely strong Big Ten, any combo of wins that adds up to 10-8 should be enough to get into the tournament… mind you, now that PSU has 2 “signature wins”, the pressure will be on us to get a couple of our own.

  • DFORD

    Once again great effort. That school in Ohio hit some big free throw shots down the stretch gotta give them that! Darius proved to efficient at the point overall but did again take some bad shot and much props to Evan S. and Novack (aside from that 1 free throw) for keeping us in the game! Ultimately though the Refs screwed up some important calls at the end like that bull crap foul on Evan on Lighty and the non call on the Morris lay in, so they definitely get the Goat trophies today!

  • Jeff

    Last two nights, I’ve seen Big10 officials influence the outcome of games. Tonight the phantom call on Smotrycz. Last night in overtime, Draymond Green jumped on Jordan Taylor’s back going for a rebound and they called the foul on Taylor. Business as usual in the Big 10.

    • mgocanada

      phantom call on shmotrex, the out-of-bounds pass off sullinger… almost as bad as Oregon’s treatment (at the hand of “neutral” B10 refs no less) on Monday.

      • Mith

        According to you, the refs must really have it out for Michigan. I remember you saying at least 3 times the other day about them being in the bag for Kansas or something like that.

        Is it just possible that bad calls go both ways during a game and probably even themselves out during a season?

        • Jeff

          I’m not complaining because we lost, but B10 refs show lots of bias. They usually favor the home team and usually favor the more prominent team. I believe the phantom call on Smotrycz was an example of the latter.

        • mgocanada

          Umm, I don’t care one way about Auburn and Oregon (the former pays its players, the latter wears whatever style abomination Phil Knight dreams up), but Oregon got the shaft on Monday, objectively speaking. Now, I don’t think refs hate Michigan at all (especially not when we’re playing Iowa), but I do think that refs subliminally prefer to avoid scrutiny of their work, and they are more likely to be scrutinized when they err on the side of upsets, deserved or otherwise.

          Plus, I saw one of those refs do the Rock Chalk Jay Hawk thingy.

  • Don

    Are you serious Scott? Close losses do nothing for the NCAA tourney resume. Mississippi State went to the NIT last year – what did they have? A couple extremely close losses to #1 seed Kentucky but few quality wins. Illinois was a combined 1-6 against Purdue/OSU/MSU last season, while Minny was 3-6 against those teams, so Minny made the tourney and Illinois didn’t, even though the Illini had a better conference record. It’s all about who you beat. You’ve got to have WINS vs. the OSUs, MSUs, and Kansas’ of the world to make the tourney & that’s the bottom line. The wins over Duke and UCLA were probably the main reasons why Michigan made the tourney in ’09. A loss like this does nothing to help you make the tourney, in fact it’s just another missed opportunity. Win a couple games against the likes of Syr/KU/OSU & then you can talk about making the tourney. Lose them all and you have no shot at making the tourney. Disappointing to lose to OSU at home when this team needed to give them some payback for last year.

  • http://@ufl.edu Mattski

    Some patently bad officiating tonight. But a great D stand by OSU on our next-to-last time downcourt.

    And I wish to heck Stu could connect from three.

  • AG2

    Its about who you play and who you beat. Who you you play probably has more to do with non-conference scheduling though. I mean I’d still slot Michigan over PSU right now based on what Michigan accomplished in the non-conference and PSU’s acts of failure.

    That all said, the refs must have been worshipping David Lighty as their lord and savior today. The number of ft attempts he got was a disgrace.

    • mgocanada

      We beat PSU and so did Maine. But if we can’t pick up a signature win, PSU’s overcoming of a long tourney drought will present the committee with a more “Hoosiers”-like storyline than we do, so let’s just win in Champaign to play it safe.

  • Jeremy_C

    Could we have got anyone but Jim Jackson to call this game?

    • junderground

      Why? I think he’s quite good. Clearly, though, a few times when Johnson made comparisons between teams that were favorable to Michigan, Jackson was diplomatically like “welllll….”

      • Jeremy_C

        Yes he does call a good game but a former Ohio State player calling the game in Ann Arbor and kissing their butts all night!!! He jumped at every oppurtunity to dog on Darius!!!

        • MikeM

          Gus Johnson was definitely biased UM’s way, so I think it evened out.

  • CJD

    Stu is the one player that seems most lost in the headlights of the much stronger opponents that have become the norm once we started big ten play. He was a giant among boys in the early season but now that it is big boy hoops time he has simply disappeared.

    Until tonight Smot was the same; hopefully he will play like this from here on out.

  • grandchamp

    Was at work so I missed the game. Stu gets over 30 minutes a game lately and isn’t filling up the stat sheet at all. He did have 10 rebounds against Ku I believe but that was in a game with tons of misses by both teams. If you’re playing that many minutes you should be filling up the stat sheet, that’s the bottom line. I often wonder how different we would be with Trey Ziegler.

  • Alex

    If we go 10-8 there will be plenty of quality wins against the likes of Minnesota, MSU, and Wiscy. It will be very difficult to do this but I think there would be a pretty good case for the Tournament. We don’t have any bar losses to this point and we have a couple of nice wins that should gain value even if they aren’t signature win. Draymond Green was right that this rivalry will be a lot more heated. We and the team need to take this one game at at time.

  • drae

    Wonder what is up with Stu, he hasn’t had a productive offensive game in sometime now… Glad to see Smotz break out of his funk… Hopefully this will be his game to get him on a more consistent track… Dmo, THjr, Zack all had nice games too… JMo did a nice job on sullinger… Craft for OSU is actually what Stu needs to be for Michigan… Drain the open three and play some lock down D… Good to see this team not quit, could of easily given up when OSU made that run… Coach Beilein has the team working in the right direction… Go Blue!

  • tin mad dog

    Another good battle but also another potential upset not quite achieved. Still, I would’ve guessed in October that our games against Cuse, KU and tosu would all be 15-20 point losses.

    We’ll pull off one of these upsets soon and I’m guessing it will come against spartie.

    GO BLUE!

  • tin mad dog

    By the way, I like the more traditional Maize shown in the above photo as opposed to the “Highlighter Yellow” that Adidas has us wearing this year.

    • mgocanada

      the fab five played in a wonderful golden “maize” but in a way, I like the French’s mustard “maize” we have now just cause it is so weird and edgy. It does make white guys look *literally* white, but you can’t win every battle

      on an unrelated note, my parting thought for the evening: anyone remember ekpe udoh?

      and with that, TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT.

      • tin mad dog

        What about Udoh? Is that just a way of saying it would be nice to have a shot-blocker? If so, I agree. I think if Horford puts on about 15-20 pounds in the offseason, he could be that guy that can block shots (which he already can) and not get manhandled by the bangers in the Big 10 (which he can’t seem to avoid at this point). He and Morgan should at least be a serviceable tandem by next year if Horford puts the work in.

        Udoh is getting some minutes in Golden State after being injured for the first 6 weeks on the season.

  • Tweeter

    Arg tough loss. Just several missed opportunities on offense, especially the three straight trips late where Smot and Douglass both missed a three and Morgan missed the front end of a 1and1. Those were just killer. But a lot of poor turnovers to boot earlier. The good news is that it seems like the offensive execution is getting a little better against the better teams which bodes well for the rest of conference play. Defensively we did about all we could do; OSU made their open shots and played aggresively.

    Re tourney: Still way too early to think about that kind of thing considering this team has not proven anything yet other than they can beat bad to decent teams. If they win a couple on the road, then we can talk.

    Re Stu: you can almost guarantee the Stu bashing anytime he has a cold shooting game. Its getting pretty absurd. Yes, he has struggled the last several games but prior to that he was by far the best shooter on the team. Just like Novak was terrible shooting the ball prior to the last three games, but lately he has been on fire. Sometimes it just comes and goes, and sometimes a particular player just doesnt get the quality looks. But to make a statement that Stu plays poorly agains the best competition is just flat out ignorant. He has had some of his best games against the best teams over his career and in some of those games has almost single handidly kept us in it. He is not a great player, but he does what he does. When he is on, he is terrific. When he is cold shooting, he still gives you solid D and intangibles. Get over it stu bashers.

    • steve

      thank you for that… does anyone remember stu against #1 uconn on the road? or stu last year against this same osu team? he has had a few bad games but everyone goes through them…

      Who did everyone think was better? Kansas or OSU? I think kansas played way better defense but OSU has better shooters around sullinger… those two teams are both #1 seeds to me…

      • Dylan Burkhardt

        Ohio State is a better team.

        • tin mad dog

          True. We needed to be close to perfect to win. If we’d cut down on turnovers and hadn’t failed on so many fast break opportunities, I think we would’ve stolen this one.

          We didn’t, though so it’s just another heartbreaker. It kind of reminds me of watching the Lions early in the season. They learned how to win the close ones by the end of the year. Hopefully, we’ll do the same.

    • CJD

      First off the facts are the facts so far this year; other than the Syracuse game in Atlantic City (which I attended) he has not stepped up as the quality of opponent has gotten stronger.

      I think it basically comes down to Stu is what Stu is…… he is (for the most part) a standing still jump shooter and most of his playing time has come in relief of D Mo at the point guard spot. The better and longer teams know they need to pick him up earlier and never go under a screen.

      Much the same can be said for D Mo in regards that the better competition has thrown D Mo a few new wrinkles as well. Partially letting him dribble the hell out of the shot clock now and then and they try to take away his right hand drive. The difference is that D Mo is a far superior athlete with far better ball handling skills and he still can get in the paint when the defensive set allows.

      He also did try to go to his left two times today and one resulted in an easy lay up as I think OSU was as shocked as we were watching the game.

      • UMQuasi

        How about 15 points against Purdue this year (6-10 fg, 3-6 3PT), single-handedly helping us come back in the first half. I’m sure most people forget that because we ended up getting blown out, but Stu played very well.

        • Dylan Burkhardt

          He also won us the Harvard game, coincidentally that game is our best RPI win.

          • CJD

            Hard to imagine that a win over Harvard would be our best at this point in the season. I realize that the Ivy League is much improved; but still surprising.

        • CJD

          Point taken…

  • junderground

    I’m surprised at the negativity directed toward DMo. Without him, we lose by 20. He can score in the lane anytime he wants. He’s not perfect, but he’s great and was particularly impressive tonight.

  • Bluebufoon

    Some folks believe you can’t learn from a loss and i think’s thats hogwash. The key thing I take away from these last two games is that it re-inforces that thes players and coaches have Michigan basketball going in the right direction and not just barely either,
    The future of this program is extremely bright unfortunately thse young players are paying there dues. Again add Trey Burke, Carlton Brundidge and hopefully a third player to this roster, next season Michigan basketballwill have the fire-power to slug it out with not only with the top teams in Big Ten but the top teams nationally.

    • CJD

      I agree and dis-agree at the same time. We will have more scoring options but if we do not get better in the paint we will continue to struggle against the elite teams and continue to be in the second tier of the big ten.

  • Joel

    I nominate Ohio St’s Craft as douchebag of the night. Also that blocking foul the ref called towards then end after he looked around like he didn’t know what to do was nonsense. Another frustrating loss but it’s good to see this team play strong for the entire game, unlike against Purdue.

    • CJD

      Craft is an ex football player who played AAU ball with Sully and many other D 1 recruits and players. He obviously brings that football mentality to the court and it paid off huge for OSU tonight.

    • Jeff

      Craft really fell apart late in the game. I started noticing him more after that questionable charge call against Morris. It almost seemed like that one play fired him up so much he lost control. He started committing lots of fouls, turning the ball over, and missing shots, sometimes in embarassing fashion.

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