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	<title>Comments on: Game 30: Michigan at Michigan State Post Game</title>
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	<description>Michigan Basketball News, Recruiting, and Analysis</description>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25509</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25509</guid>
		<description>To me the big question is has this style of play hurt the conference. Can you recruit skilled offensive players to play in the big ten? There are a few but this site tells part of the story: http://rpiratings.com/NBA.html
The impression nationally is very much affected by the style in the big ten. I&#039;ve been a fan since the mid 70s and this was never the norm. Watch some of the games from the eighties when the conference was at it&#039;s best and had great players all over the conference. Guys played defense with their feet. There were big guys with talent. Things have changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me the big question is has this style of play hurt the conference. Can you recruit skilled offensive players to play in the big ten? There are a few but this site tells part of the story: <a href="http://rpiratings.com/NBA.html" rel="nofollow">http://rpiratings.com/NBA.html</a><br />
The impression nationally is very much affected by the style in the big ten. I&#8217;ve been a fan since the mid 70s and this was never the norm. Watch some of the games from the eighties when the conference was at it&#8217;s best and had great players all over the conference. Guys played defense with their feet. There were big guys with talent. Things have changed.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisG</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25508</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25508</guid>
		<description>I think this teams inability to shoot from any range is what has killed us. So much of our game last year was hitting 3s and then backdooring the hell out of people when they were forced to guard us on the permimeter. Not like we were stellar from 3 last year, but the truth is we hit enough to make defenders honest. I can remember maybe one or two backdoor attempts ALL SEASON!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this teams inability to shoot from any range is what has killed us. So much of our game last year was hitting 3s and then backdooring the hell out of people when they were forced to guard us on the permimeter. Not like we were stellar from 3 last year, but the truth is we hit enough to make defenders honest. I can remember maybe one or two backdoor attempts ALL SEASON!</p>
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		<title>By: noah tahl</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25507</link>
		<dc:creator>noah tahl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25507</guid>
		<description>Observations: 1. Manny at 185 lbs spread out over 6&#039;5&quot; cannot handle a push to the hips by someone 205 to 275. 2. If Deshawn starts another first shot of game with a baseline turn around one more time I will puke. 3. Everyone who watches Mich BK knows where the ball is going 90% of the time...ball on the wing to Manny,Manny swings to the key, going right of course,Manny tries to go to the basket, Manny gets fouled,Manny gets the call(25 %) or Doesn&#039;t get the call (75% of the time) 4. Too small, too small, too small. 5. Can&#039;t shoot, can&#039;t shoot. 5. Belein does not inspire. I repeat, Belein does not inspire.Whine would be the word to describe his during the game demeanor, while his locker room pep talks are painful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Observations: 1. Manny at 185 lbs spread out over 6&#8217;5&#8243; cannot handle a push to the hips by someone 205 to 275. 2. If Deshawn starts another first shot of game with a baseline turn around one more time I will puke. 3. Everyone who watches Mich BK knows where the ball is going 90% of the time&#8230;ball on the wing to Manny,Manny swings to the key, going right of course,Manny tries to go to the basket, Manny gets fouled,Manny gets the call(25 %) or Doesn&#8217;t get the call (75% of the time) 4. Too small, too small, too small. 5. Can&#8217;t shoot, can&#8217;t shoot. 5. Belein does not inspire. I repeat, Belein does not inspire.Whine would be the word to describe his during the game demeanor, while his locker room pep talks are painful.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom_McC</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25506</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom_McC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25506</guid>
		<description>Think we need to back away from the ledge a little here...

1. @ Home, on Sr. night, playing for a share of the Big Ten Title and in a rivalry game to boot, are we really shocked MSU came out and played as it did?  That in no way excuses UM&#039;s performance but in a season where we rarely know what UM team we are going to see, I can&#039;t believe people are THAT surprised.  UM did get slaughtered, but at least they didn&#039;t completely lay down...I thought the last part of the 2nd half some guys showed some heart and grit.

2.  You expect your stars, especially your stars from the the state of Michigan to step up in a game like this.  If there is anything that was disappointing about yesterday the following was the most disappointing to me:

Manny and Peedi combine for: 13 Pts, 4/18 FG&#039;s, 0/5 3FG&#039;s, 5/8 FT&#039;s, 9 Rebs, 5 Asts, 6 TO&#039;s in 63 minutes.

I love both of these guys but those numbers are scary, especially when you consider they are UM&#039;s &#039;go to guys&#039;.

There has been a sect of fans that have been really hard on the supporting cast Beilein has recruited but at the end of the day when push comes to shove, you play through your stars.

3.  Which leads me to, the difference b/w a good and bad year isn&#039;t that significant.  It really comes down to handful of plays and UM, for whatever reason, was not able to make the same kinds of plays they did last year.  Whether it is shooting 4% points lower on FT&#039;s, whether is the inability to make open shots and/or the inability to secure loose balls or rebounds that might get UM the extra possession it needs to salt a game away or given them the chance to win, it just didn&#039;t happen.

Obviously, a large portion of this is a personnel issue, but it is also a chemistry and leadership issue.

On most teams, the oldest and best players are the guys that you need to count on to get you through.  Well, I appreciate Sims and Manny&#039;s efforts, but they haven&#039;t fit the bill as leaders of this team.  Same goes for the other guys...but it&#039;s hard to get leadership from underclassmen.

4. I&#039;m staying the course.  It&#039;s easy to let the naysayers influence your opinions, but as a Michigan fan all we need to do is look at what happened last year.  We had absolutely no reason to expect an NCAA berth(or a NCAA 1st rd win for that matter) and it was delivered.  I know there are obvious concerns, but I think as a fanbase, it&#039;s important we continue to openly support this program.  I&#039;m not saying there aren&#039;t reasons to doubt the program or that we should give Beilein a pass for this year...it will be a long offseason and I don&#039;t plan on dwelling on the negative and I look forward to focusing on what this team is capable of doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think we need to back away from the ledge a little here&#8230;</p>
<p>1. @ Home, on Sr. night, playing for a share of the Big Ten Title and in a rivalry game to boot, are we really shocked MSU came out and played as it did?  That in no way excuses UM&#8217;s performance but in a season where we rarely know what UM team we are going to see, I can&#8217;t believe people are THAT surprised.  UM did get slaughtered, but at least they didn&#8217;t completely lay down&#8230;I thought the last part of the 2nd half some guys showed some heart and grit.</p>
<p>2.  You expect your stars, especially your stars from the the state of Michigan to step up in a game like this.  If there is anything that was disappointing about yesterday the following was the most disappointing to me:</p>
<p>Manny and Peedi combine for: 13 Pts, 4/18 FG&#8217;s, 0/5 3FG&#8217;s, 5/8 FT&#8217;s, 9 Rebs, 5 Asts, 6 TO&#8217;s in 63 minutes.</p>
<p>I love both of these guys but those numbers are scary, especially when you consider they are UM&#8217;s &#8216;go to guys&#8217;.</p>
<p>There has been a sect of fans that have been really hard on the supporting cast Beilein has recruited but at the end of the day when push comes to shove, you play through your stars.</p>
<p>3.  Which leads me to, the difference b/w a good and bad year isn&#8217;t that significant.  It really comes down to handful of plays and UM, for whatever reason, was not able to make the same kinds of plays they did last year.  Whether it is shooting 4% points lower on FT&#8217;s, whether is the inability to make open shots and/or the inability to secure loose balls or rebounds that might get UM the extra possession it needs to salt a game away or given them the chance to win, it just didn&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>Obviously, a large portion of this is a personnel issue, but it is also a chemistry and leadership issue.</p>
<p>On most teams, the oldest and best players are the guys that you need to count on to get you through.  Well, I appreciate Sims and Manny&#8217;s efforts, but they haven&#8217;t fit the bill as leaders of this team.  Same goes for the other guys&#8230;but it&#8217;s hard to get leadership from underclassmen.</p>
<p>4. I&#8217;m staying the course.  It&#8217;s easy to let the naysayers influence your opinions, but as a Michigan fan all we need to do is look at what happened last year.  We had absolutely no reason to expect an NCAA berth(or a NCAA 1st rd win for that matter) and it was delivered.  I know there are obvious concerns, but I think as a fanbase, it&#8217;s important we continue to openly support this program.  I&#8217;m not saying there aren&#8217;t reasons to doubt the program or that we should give Beilein a pass for this year&#8230;it will be a long offseason and I don&#8217;t plan on dwelling on the negative and I look forward to focusing on what this team is capable of doing.</p>
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		<title>By: JBan</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25505</link>
		<dc:creator>JBan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25505</guid>
		<description>Steve S:

I would feel better about the inbound play if I had the confidence we could get a good shot, but......our offense has shown otherwise.

Andy:

I could not agree more about the talk of &quot;systems.&quot;  The best coaching staffs are able to adapt to what they have.  Our former West Virginia coaches do not be willing or able to do that.  I am not sure how that will work in the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve S:</p>
<p>I would feel better about the inbound play if I had the confidence we could get a good shot, but&#8230;&#8230;our offense has shown otherwise.</p>
<p>Andy:</p>
<p>I could not agree more about the talk of &#8220;systems.&#8221;  The best coaching staffs are able to adapt to what they have.  Our former West Virginia coaches do not be willing or able to do that.  I am not sure how that will work in the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattski</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25504</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25504</guid>
		<description>Cyrus Ernesto (&quot;Ernie&quot;) Zirakzadeh, above, makes a good observation. They had a number of early chances, and were really executing; when the shots didn&#039;t fall it just looked like the heart when out of them.

The bludgeoning is a problem esp. if you&#039;re already under-manned. It would be fun to believe the day might come when M would just come out and rain 3-bombs and doopse in via that back door on those bastards, render some of that cave-man sh*t irrelevant.

Could be true that Beilein the shooting expert has them over-thinking their shots; sure he&#039;s thought of that too, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cyrus Ernesto (&#8220;Ernie&#8221;) Zirakzadeh, above, makes a good observation. They had a number of early chances, and were really executing; when the shots didn&#8217;t fall it just looked like the heart when out of them.</p>
<p>The bludgeoning is a problem esp. if you&#8217;re already under-manned. It would be fun to believe the day might come when M would just come out and rain 3-bombs and doopse in via that back door on those bastards, render some of that cave-man sh*t irrelevant.</p>
<p>Could be true that Beilein the shooting expert has them over-thinking their shots; sure he&#8217;s thought of that too, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweeter</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25503</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweeter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25503</guid>
		<description>The officials were awful yesterday but clearly UM loses this game no matter if they call every foul or no fouls.  The two big bad calls that stood out to me were the travel on Gibson early in the game and the shot clock violation on UM.  I dont know how they missed those calls.  But the most fustrating part of the officiating yesterday was the fact that the game was called tight at the start and then they just stopped blowing the whistle.

I can live with officials missing calls here and there, or not calling a tight game, but I hate games where they call no fouls for a period of time then start calling every foul.  It ruins the flow of the game and players have no idea how they should play.  I have noticed this a lot this year in BT play.  UM has had several games where only 3 or 4 fouls are called on both teams in the first half, then in the second half the officials call 20 fouls.  Its just silly.

On inbounds plays: UM has run some OBU plays this year but they are limited in the number of plays they can run.  Usually UM runs some version of &quot;America&#039;s play.&quot;  Which is inbound to the corner, swing it out and then screen the inbounder for a shot in either corner.  I&#039;ve noticed them run several different versions of this play this year.  A lot of the plays that State runs are designed to get postups for their players.  For instance the play yesterday where Morgan inbounded the ball then jumped in for a postup on Douglass.  UM doesnt have the players to do this.  Its not like you can postup Novak.  I remember UM running a screen the screener player early this year, and I believe it was Novak came wide open at the basket, but when he got the ball all he could do was dribble it out because the opposing post player helped over.

So I think UM tries to run some OBU&#039;s to get shots they can take, its just that they are limited in their options, so most of the time good teams take it away and force them to throw to midcourt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The officials were awful yesterday but clearly UM loses this game no matter if they call every foul or no fouls.  The two big bad calls that stood out to me were the travel on Gibson early in the game and the shot clock violation on UM.  I dont know how they missed those calls.  But the most fustrating part of the officiating yesterday was the fact that the game was called tight at the start and then they just stopped blowing the whistle.</p>
<p>I can live with officials missing calls here and there, or not calling a tight game, but I hate games where they call no fouls for a period of time then start calling every foul.  It ruins the flow of the game and players have no idea how they should play.  I have noticed this a lot this year in BT play.  UM has had several games where only 3 or 4 fouls are called on both teams in the first half, then in the second half the officials call 20 fouls.  Its just silly.</p>
<p>On inbounds plays: UM has run some OBU plays this year but they are limited in the number of plays they can run.  Usually UM runs some version of &#8220;America&#8217;s play.&#8221;  Which is inbound to the corner, swing it out and then screen the inbounder for a shot in either corner.  I&#8217;ve noticed them run several different versions of this play this year.  A lot of the plays that State runs are designed to get postups for their players.  For instance the play yesterday where Morgan inbounded the ball then jumped in for a postup on Douglass.  UM doesnt have the players to do this.  Its not like you can postup Novak.  I remember UM running a screen the screener player early this year, and I believe it was Novak came wide open at the basket, but when he got the ball all he could do was dribble it out because the opposing post player helped over.</p>
<p>So I think UM tries to run some OBU&#8217;s to get shots they can take, its just that they are limited in their options, so most of the time good teams take it away and force them to throw to midcourt.</p>
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		<title>By: AA</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25502</link>
		<dc:creator>AA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25502</guid>
		<description>A great opening to your article Dylan, and unfortunately oh so true!

&quot;Outhustled. Outmuscled. Outrebounded. Outshot. Outplayed.  Dominated.&quot;

Great description. And only incomplete in that it did not include Outcoached.

The Wolverines came out flat against the arrogant asses of Michigan State, when a victory would have prevented a Michigan State Championship.

Sure there is a talent level difference, but where was the Wolverines fight? Their team mental toughness. They laid that down.

Their fight must be hidden with their offensive game plan.

I want to see Beilein raging after a loss, not saying he doesn&#039;t know what to do.  His teams flat out do not play well away from Crisler Arena(when not on a neutral court), and that is a coaching problem.  I have heard him say he wished a certain game was in Crisler as that would enhance chances.

Wolverine Fans can tolerate losing if their teams compete, but it gets old fast when their play is an appropriate subject of ridicule.

I do not want to see this Coach and program fail, and the Coach tossed out, and I will pay my money and keep watching. But at some point there has to be a realistic evaluation of where this program is going and right now it is too obvious that direction is not up.

I am more and more leaning to the idea that his system can not compete successfully in the Big Ten.  Is recruiting where it should be? They can&#039;t recruit bigs that stay healthy or qualify.

A nice run in the B10 tourney would take some of the heat off now, but how probable is that?

Now if Iowa whips them, Wolverine fans will rightfully howl!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great opening to your article Dylan, and unfortunately oh so true!</p>
<p>&#8220;Outhustled. Outmuscled. Outrebounded. Outshot. Outplayed.  Dominated.&#8221;</p>
<p>Great description. And only incomplete in that it did not include Outcoached.</p>
<p>The Wolverines came out flat against the arrogant asses of Michigan State, when a victory would have prevented a Michigan State Championship.</p>
<p>Sure there is a talent level difference, but where was the Wolverines fight? Their team mental toughness. They laid that down.</p>
<p>Their fight must be hidden with their offensive game plan.</p>
<p>I want to see Beilein raging after a loss, not saying he doesn&#8217;t know what to do.  His teams flat out do not play well away from Crisler Arena(when not on a neutral court), and that is a coaching problem.  I have heard him say he wished a certain game was in Crisler as that would enhance chances.</p>
<p>Wolverine Fans can tolerate losing if their teams compete, but it gets old fast when their play is an appropriate subject of ridicule.</p>
<p>I do not want to see this Coach and program fail, and the Coach tossed out, and I will pay my money and keep watching. But at some point there has to be a realistic evaluation of where this program is going and right now it is too obvious that direction is not up.</p>
<p>I am more and more leaning to the idea that his system can not compete successfully in the Big Ten.  Is recruiting where it should be? They can&#8217;t recruit bigs that stay healthy or qualify.</p>
<p>A nice run in the B10 tourney would take some of the heat off now, but how probable is that?</p>
<p>Now if Iowa whips them, Wolverine fans will rightfully howl!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve S.</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25501</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25501</guid>
		<description>In reply to JBan&#039;s comment about the play(s) we run from the inbounds:  I used to get frustrated like you when we continuously lob the ball into our back court instead of trying to run a play to get an easy basket.  I now believe that Beilein feels confident that he can get a good shot by just running our offense and it isn&#039;t worth a possible turnover on a bad inbounds pass in traffic or a 5 second call.  Just a guess, but it makes me feel better at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to JBan&#8217;s comment about the play(s) we run from the inbounds:  I used to get frustrated like you when we continuously lob the ball into our back court instead of trying to run a play to get an easy basket.  I now believe that Beilein feels confident that he can get a good shot by just running our offense and it isn&#8217;t worth a possible turnover on a bad inbounds pass in traffic or a 5 second call.  Just a guess, but it makes me feel better at least.</p>
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		<title>By: maxwell's demon</title>
		<link>http://www.umhoops.com/2010/03/08/game-30-michigan-at-michigan-state-post-game/comment-page-1/#comment-25500</link>
		<dc:creator>maxwell's demon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.umhoops.com/?p=7444#comment-25500</guid>
		<description>I agree AG2. Since we aren&#039;t going to be doing anything to change that then maybe Purdue and osu will. I&#039;m so sick of msu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree AG2. Since we aren&#8217;t going to be doing anything to change that then maybe Purdue and osu will. I&#8217;m so sick of msu.</p>
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