Mar 5, 2009 at 2:12 pm by Dylan Burkhardt Filed under: 2008-2009 Season

Bubble Madness

What the hell is going on? Does any bubble team want to make the tournament? They certainly aren’t playing like it. So far this week ten bubble teams have lost and six of those ten lost to bad teams. Losing to Wake Forest or UNC makes sense, even losing to fellow bubble teams is reasonable, but losing to teams like Georgia, Georgia Tech, St John’s or South Florida is just embarrassing.

All of these losses are great to see for Michigan as well as any other team. I put together a rough list of 17 teams who were on the bubble this week and needed some wins. Four won, four haven’t played yet, and nine lost. The fact that this many upsets have occurred is remarkable and it will be very interesting to see how the field readjusts.

Bracketologists across the country are shocked by the recent transgressions but there is no denying that it is good news for Michigan. Michigan moves into Lunardi’s bracket and also moves up a couple spots at Crashing the Dance.

Katz. Andy Katz took a stab at deciphering the bubble today. Katz feels like there are 57 spots that are basically locked up (this lists includes South Carolina and Arizona, two teams I’m not so sure about) which leaves eight spots remaining and 18 teams fighting for them. Looking up and down the list I have a hard time finding 8 other teams that deserve a bid over Michigan:

1. Maryland
2. Virginia Tech
3. Miami
4. Rhode Island
5. Providence
6. Texas A&M
7. Oklahoma State
8. Kansas State
9. Penn State
10. Ohio State
11. Northwestern
12. Michigan
13. Florida
14. Kentucky
15. Saint Mary’s
16. UNLV
17. New Mexico
18. San Diego State

I would take Maryland, Providence, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and one from the MWC but even that is a bit shaky. Providence and Penn State very well could lose tonight and they probably still need work. An argument for mid majors like Saint Mary’s or Rhode Island could be made but they have 3 top 50 wins combined. I challenge you to come up with an 8 team list that doesn’t include Michigan.

Katz also makes the argument for Northwestern; a team that has already beat six top 50 teams and probably deserves more bubble talk than several other teams who are being considered. Northwestern’s RPI isn’t very good but a win over Ohio State this weekend would move them to 9-9 in the conference with seven top 50 wins. Not too bad, Bill Carmody deserves some serious coach of the year talk.

Conference Strength. I made the case a while back that the Big Ten was the deepest conference in the country and I think this argument still holds. The ACC and Big East are great conferences at the top, they combine for 10 of the top 25 RPI slots but they don’t have the depth of the Big Ten. The Big Ten has seven teams in the RPI top 50. The Big East has eight but they also have 16 teams, five of which fall outside the top 100. There are some good teams in the middle of the ACC but all of them have played their way out of the top 50 leaving only five top 50 teams.

So wouldn’t it make sense that the deepest conference should get the most bids? Big Ten teams went out and beat plenty of people in the non-conference season, Duke, Louisville, Kansas, UCLA, Florida State, and Missouri are just a few of their victims. So if all of these Big Ten teams play (and beat) top competition and then battling it out to a tie at 500 they should be rewarded. Andy Glockner agrees and gives the Big Ten some love on SI.com and mentions that they are the conference most likely to get 8 bids.

8-10? Could Michigan make the field at 8-10? I don’t see why not. There has been a list of teams who made the dance with a losing conference record floating around the internet; the conclusion is that there is more or less one per year. With all of the other bubble teams slipping up this week I find it hard to believe that Michigan wouldn’t get consideration at 8-10. They have the strength of schedule (9th), quality wins (5 vs. top 50), solid RPI (even with a loss on Saturday the RPI could hold in the forties), and they play in a good conference. The resume that I look to compare them with is 2008 Arizona.

The other issue is what happens with Northwestern and Penn State. Northwestern could finish 9-9 with a win in Columbus and cause Michigan to fall to ninth in the conference. Penn State could fall all the way to 9-9 but they also could go 11-7. I think that an 8-10 Michigan team deserves a bid over a 9-9 Penn State team that played no one in the out of conference. There are also mid-majors and conference tournament upsets to worry about that but the bottom line is 8-10 is not as much of a long shot as some believe.

Saturday. This week’s bubble disasters are making one thing clear: the winner of this game is in very good shape. We can debate whether it is a play-in or play-out game or whether it would punch anyone’s ticket but the bottom line is that beating Minnesota would add one more top 50 win and finally give Michigan a marquee road win. The RPI would likely jump into the thirties and it would be hard to deny Michigan a spot with their resume.

There is no doubt in my mind that this team has overachieved this year but the bottom line is that we’re here now. We are in a situation where we control our own destiny and it’s time to go out and play.

Thursday Night Viewers Guide

The viewers guide seems to be just as lucky as MGoBlog liveblogs are unlucky. Cheer for the bold teams and hope for some more good news. Bracketology 101 also has some more information and previews of these games.

  • Providence at Villanova - 7 PM, ESPN2
  • Tennessee at South Carolina, 7 PM ESPN
  • Dayton at Xavier, 9PM ESPN2
  • lllinois at Penn State, 9 PM ESPN
  • Cal at Arizona, 10:30 PM FSN
  • USC at Oregon, 10:30 PM
  • Adam

    great post Dylan! I agree that it’s very difficult to find 8 teams that are more deserving than Michigan, even with a loss on Saturday. If they beat Minnesota on Saturday I would say they are in!

  • Benjamin

    I agree with Adam. Beat Minny on Saturday we are in.

    I will be rooting hard for ‘Nova tonight. I think Providence has one of the better shots, as a bubble team, to make it in.

  • NVE

    Biggest difference between Arizona ’08 and Michigan ’09 are the road records – ‘Zona was 7-7 on the road last year, compared to our 3-8 (2 true road wins).

  • El Capitan

    I have been very pessimistic all season about our team’s tourney chances but let’s face it: the basketball gods want us in. With G’Town, Miami, Cincy, Notre Dame, Kansas St, BC, Va Tech, and Florida/Kentucky (depending on who loses that head-to-head matchup Saturday) done, I firmly believe that a win Saturday will punch our ticket to the Big Dance.

    For about a month now I have thought that 20 wins is the only way we get in, but hey 19 wins at this point should do the trick, too. The parity of college basketball is at an all-time high this season, so let’s take advantage of this opportunity and go dancin’!

  • Beast1530

    The NCAA selection committee doesn’t take team’s RPI and conference RPI into consideration.

    They take road record, record against RPI top 25, 50 and 100, bad losses and SOS into account.

    If you look at resume among bubble teams, Michigan should be in.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    NVE: That is definitely true. I meant to put that in there but I forgot it.

  • Adam

    I’m so excited to watch bubble games tonight! Go Nova, Tennessee, Xavier, Illinois, and Cal!

  • Bill

    Beast1530- Do you have some sort of link to that information?

  • steveo

    I have a question. If Penn State loses both remaining regular season games and we lose to Minnesota on Saturday do we still get in? I dont understand the fascination with Penn State. We split with them head to head, had a way better OOC schedule and better RPI (I believe). Or could we both get in anyways because all other bubble teams are losing?
    Either way, lets just beat Minnesota and make the situation and scenarios moot!
    Go Blue!

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Steveo: If Penn State loses out I don’t think they are in without a run in the BTT. I don’t think that directly applies to Michigan either way but it is at least one less team on the bubble I guess. But I too don’t get the fascination with PSU.. NW at 9-9 seems like a better resume to me than PSU at 9-9… That is another reason why tonight’s game is so important. Go Illini.

  • ch125

    It’s been a great week so far, but I think we need to win 2 games to secure our bid. Either Minnesota and one in the tourney (preferably because of a big road win) or 2 in the tourney. That puts us at 20 wins. The big thing for us right now is to prove that we want to dance, because other teams are simply not doing that right now.

    1 win against either northwestern or iowa in the tourney and 2 more top 50 losses (Minny and Tourney loss) puts us at the selection committees mercy and probably back in the NIT.

  • Giddings

    First of all, great post Dylan. I agree with everything you say and I think it is pretty up to date.

    I actually DO get the fascination with PSU. They have no bad losses, they’re 9-7 in the 2nd best conference in the country, they’ve beaten each of the conference’s Top 3 teams and two of those wins came on the road. They had a very weak non conference schedule in which they failed to beat the two best teams they played (Rhode Island and Temple, both bubble teams) but I do give them a little credit for winning at Georgia Tech, which Miami and Wake could not do.

    Having said that, I see the Lions losing their next two and missing the Dance.

  • jgunnip

    We’re also (obv) routing for UCLA to beat Oregon St so we can keep that T25 win. UCLA is currently 23 in the RPI

  • steveo

    Thanks Dylan. I was just referencing PSU because they seem to be in a lot of projections ahead of us. We split and had better OOC schedule. But I see the reason for them being in also. Anyways, Im rooting for the Illini tonight.
    Beat Minny and were in.

  • Blazerine

    “The viewers guide seems to be just as lucky as MGoBlog liveblogs are unlucky.”

    That’s funny, but so true.

    BTW Love the site Dylan. Check it daily. Thanks for all your hard work. There are plenty of people who appreciate it. Props.

    GO BLUE

  • Avery Queen

    I just want to see a win Saturday (so we are in) and then a 6 way tie for 9-9 so there is pure chaos.

  • http://detroitsportsrag.com GBMDC06

    Maybe I missed this…but if we win on saturday, we could finish where? between 5th and 7th? And if we lose, between 7th and 9th? Is that true?

  • Chad Jones

    Dylan, You said Lunardi moved us into his field today?? Thats good news, good article and good points. I think 8-10 is a real possibility but I want to win at Minny to leave no doubt.

  • Beast1530

    Bill, if you have subscription to GBW, a poster had a chance to participate in a mock bracket selection with a member of selection committee explaining on how they pick the teams especially the one with the bubble teams. He said that your RPI and conference RPI are not being taken into considerations.

  • El Capitan

    I would love to see that insanity associated with a 6-way tie at 9-9 conference record, but that’s going to be really hard to pull off. And I would really enjoy a loss by Providence tonight, because I think they are in the exact same spot as us at this point.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    If Providence and Penn State lose tonight I think it is possible that we aren’t even in the last four in but further in tomorrow’s updates. A loss would still set us back but it’s interesting at least.

  • Avery Queen

    So losing to Villanova probably doesn’t do anything but help their RPI. But their resume is a joke compared to ours.

  • Avery Queen

    Haha. Is anyone watching the Providence game? They just compared 3 teams’ resumes blind and whoever is announcing picked the third one as the best. We turned out to be the 3rd and the other two were Providence and Creighton.

  • Giddings

    Yeah I saw that. Not surprising though… if you remove the names from resumes and omit the road record and conference record, we basically look like THE best bubble team out there.

  • Beast1530

    If you take out every bubble teams name out and compare them strictly from a resume standpoint, Michigan should be in. But since Michigan has a name next to it, they’re a bubble team.

  • http://www.bamapachyderm.com Chris in NC

    Dang, wish I had seen that. The kids are playing on the Wii hence no TV for me for now. Dylan, any chance of getting that little clip? It would be good to see it.

  • Redwings8831

    Villanova up 6 and Tennessee up 4 at the half.

  • Manny Fresh

    They just showed Lunardi’s bracket and he had us in the last four out?

  • Giddings

    That was as of Monday. Surprised they didn’t make that more clear when they were talking about it. Also nice to see Bardo say we’re “IN”.

  • IX

    That Lunardi bracket they just showed was as of Monday. He had an online chat today and I think mentioned Michigan as in due to all the upsets this week, not sure on that though.

  • SJWolv

    Yep, that bracket is old. The new one comes out tomorrow if you don’t have ESPN Insider Access to Lunardi’s Blog.

  • IX

    Wow, I’m watching this UT/SC game on ESPN right now and these teams can’t play good D at all. The top 9 teams in the Big Ten would own the SEC!

  • Manny Fresh

    Providence is hanging around and making me nervous. They’re playing like their backs are to the wall.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Proivdence and South Carolina don’t seem particularly motivated… South Carolina is getting blown out on their home floor and I’m wondering if Providence knows what defense is.

  • ch125

    Do you think a big loss for South Carolina at home boots them from the bubble barring a deep SEC tourney run??

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    ch125: It certainly could, they are 0-3 versus the RPI top 50 after Florida’s loss.

  • Drew

    I don’t know if anyone just caught Len Elmore during the Providence game saying that the committee chairman said that conference RPI will not be mentioned in the room come selection time. So Beast’s statement earlier was pretty credible.

  • http://www.bamapachyderm.com Chris in NC

    It continues, bubble teams deciding “maybe next year” when the chips are down.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Yea, I have seen that as well. Conference RPI doesn’t matter but record against top 50 teams matters and there are plenty of them in the Big Ten because of… their conference RPI.

    Couldn’t hope for anything but a couple blow outs in the first two. Time for round two.

  • Avery Queen

    I think statements like saying we aren’t going to evaluate by RPI or by how many teams a conference sends is pretty much meaningless. I’m not doubting that the committee chairman said it I just think that even if you don’t explicitly discuss those things they are ingrained in everyone’s heads. Not to mention that RPI is just a number that is supposed to represent everything they will be discussing.

  • Giddings

    Watching this Illinois game… anyone else find it funny that Legion barely ever plays now? And when he does, he shoots it as soon as he touches the ball and can’t even crack 30% from the field (23% three-point)?

  • A.J.

    Illinois is off to a good start up 19-13 on Penn State.

  • Ken in Las Vegas

    I find it very funny, Giddings. I don’t like him or his loud mouthed mother. Illinois looks very comfortable against Penn State so far. I think they match up very well.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    I feel no sympathy Giddings. There is a reason he didn’t end up here and I’m glad he’s not in Ann Arbor.

  • http://Detroitsportsrag.com GBMDC02

    I thought God anointed him to be a great basketball player or something?

    Alex Legion is going to someday be a cautionary tale..

  • Other Matt

    Classic Big Ten Officiating there to close the first half of the Penn State-Illinois game. Calling a phantom over the back with less than a second to go to give Penn State a 1 and 1. Unbelievable.

  • IX

    Notice how Jim Burr is officiating that game. If we get Burr Saturday I don’t even want to watch.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Mentioning Michigan and Minnesota in the same line as Kentucky and Florida feels like a slap in the face to me.

  • IX

    Very, what part of “The SEC sucks a$$” do people not understand? Hell, Iowa would probably take down Florida and/or Kentucky.

  • Giddings

    Kind of random, but did you know that Zack and Stu are both shooting 45-129 from long range?

  • Ken in Las Vegas

    We don’t care about the Stanford game do we?

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Ken: Good question… We want Stanford to beat Arizona this weekend but it shouldn’t really matter. A win tonight will mean that they will probably jump into the top 100 though, making an Arizona loss “not as bad”. Still, that is pretty secondary.

  • Giddings

    Also indirectly, maybe Stanford winning tonight would help UCLA’s RPI since the Bruins swept the Cardinal and lost twice to ASU.

  • Tweeter

    Dylan, thanks for your bubble breakdown. I completely agree that it you cannot put together a list of 8 from those teams that does not include Michigan. I did a simimlar thing on my own, looking at some thirty bubble teams and trying to pick 17, but without team names next to all the numbers. Even though I knew Michigan’s numbers, it was impossible not to pick them as one of the teams. On another note, I am off for vacation tomorrow and will be forced to miss the Minny game. Only the second game this year that I will miss. The first, was the second Penn St game. So hopefully there is something to that, when I dont watch. Win and we are in! Go Blue!

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    LOL. Penn State just got jobbed there, no way that basket should have counted… Reminds me of CMU last year.

  • Giddings

    Ha the refs blow two calls (favoring Illinois, amazingly) and then Jim Burr trips over an injured Cornley. Classic.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Come on Illinois, hold on. Also all the credit in the world to Cornley, that kid is tough as nails.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Now THAT is how you blow a game…

  • YpsiTuckyBoy

    Oh crap.

  • Mason

    Damn Battle…

  • IX

    I don’t know if I hate Illinois or Penn State more for this game.

  • Tweeter

    wow. that was a classic choke job. How about just making the front of a 1-and-1 once in awhile?

  • Giddings

    … and Penn State is now safely in. I think they can lose their next two games and still make it.

  • Bobby Digital

    We’re still good with a win over Minnesota, don’t you think?

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Illinois didn’t score in the last four minutes. Give me a break. Missed at least two front ends of one and ones too. And yes I think we are still in very good shape with a win over Minnesota.

  • ch125

    unbelievable.

    that’s twice Illinois has blown leads late and let Penn State beat them

  • Giddings

    Yes, we’re still good with a win over Minnesota.

  • Acedeuce

    We catch almost every break in the world this week, but we can’t catch any breaks in our own conference. If they are really not looking at conferences and conference records, I think 8 is easy for the big 10, and maybe, maybe 9(?). What’s the highest percent of any conference to make the NCAA(aka 8/11 teams)

  • rlc

    OK, we can discard all the “tied with Penn St” scenarios. The Nittany Lions have the inside track on the #2 seed in the BTT.

  • Andy

    I’ll take PSU as the 2 in the BTT. If UM beats Minn and gets the 7, I like our chances of getting to Saturday.

  • Redwings8831

    Think about it this way:

    If Penn State beats Iowa and Michigan State beats Purdue, via the three way tiebreaker, Penn State would be the #2 seed. Now what does Michigan need to have happen in order to get the 7 seed? Getting to the semi’s by beating Iowa and Penn State would probably be the easiest way to do it.

  • Redwings8831

    All we would need to happen to get the 7 is beat Minnesota and have Ohio State and Wisconsin also win (over Northwestern and Wisconsin respectively).

  • ch125

    They will get in, but they can’t lose to Iowa and in the first round of the B10. Losing those 2 would bring their overall conference record (including the tourney) to 10-9. With their nonconference SOS at 305 they would be praying on selection Sunday.

  • rlc

    OK, here are the live possibilities:

    9th place outright (yecchh)

    Two way tie
    8 Michigan 8-10 2-0
    9 Northwestern 8-10 0-2

    Two way tie
    7 Michigan 9-9 2-0
    8 Minnesota 9-9 0-2

    Three way tie
    6 Michigan 9-9 2-2 (1-1 v PU)
    7 Wisconsin 9-9 2-2 (2-0 v PSU 1-0 v OSU)
    8 Minnesota 9-9 2-2 (1-1 v PSU 1-1 v OSU)

    Four way tie
    6 Michigan 9-9 4-2
    7 Ohio St. 9-9 3-3
    8 Northwestern 9-9 2-4 (1-1 v MSU)
    9 Minnesota 9-9 2-4 (0-2 v MSU)

    Five way tie
    5 Wisconsin 9-9 4-3
    6 Northwestern 9-9 4-4 (1-1 v MSU)
    7 Michigan 9-9 4-4 (1-1 v PU)
    8 Minnesota 9-9 4-4
    9 Ohio St. 9-9 3-4

  • ch125

    Beat Minnesota and don’t get beat by Iowa in the first round and we are golden.

    Lose to Minnesota, we HAVE to get to Saturday at the very least (which would include beating MSU). Highly unlikely.

  • rlc

    Oh, and in case of a three way tie for second, Illinois gets the #3 seed and Purdue #4.

  • steveo

    I wanted Illinois to win but I still believe Penn State was going to get into the tourney. I dont understand why we dont have just as good a chance as them, but I cant argue with all of their wins. I think they are deserving (even with their bad OOC schedule). Personally, with all the bubble teams losing, all the Big Ten bubble teams should be in (except for Northwestern).
    I actually think this is a good thing though. If Penn State gets the #2 seed, and we beat Minny (which probably puts us in regardless), we have to beat Iowa and Penn St. to get to the semis. That seems like a fairly easy road.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Good stuff rlc…

    Now who would you guys like to play most? Least to lose against Northwestern in my opinion (they are top 100) and I think we match up pretty well with them. Beating NW would also give us a shot at another top 100 win. Iowa beat us once and Jake Kelly gives me nightmares right now. Indiana seems like they play everyone close and that would be a nightmare situation if we were to lose.

    Just read it closer and it looks like the only way be play NW is if we go 8-10, so that is less than ideal I suppose.

  • Redwings8831

    My choices would be whatever tiebreaker puts us at 7, assuming Penn State finishes 2nd with their win against Iowa and a MSU win over Purdue.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    OK… PSU as the 2 seed and Michigan as the 7 seems perfect. Definitely the easiest road to Saturday. Let’s win this Saturday though :-)

  • Andy

    The seeding possibilities are endless. I like this stuff, so here it goes. (all assuming Wisconsin beats Indiana)

    Scenario #1. UM beats Minn, NU beats OSU

    UM 4-2
    OSU 3-3
    NW 3-3
    Minn 2-4

    Seeds are UM = 6, NW = 7 (via the win vs. MSU), OSU = 8, Minn = 9.

    Scenario #2. UM beats Minn, OSU beats NW

    Seeds are OSU = 6, UM = 7 (via head to head with Minn), Minn = 8, NW = 9.

    Scenario #3. Minn beats UM, NU beats OSU

    Seeds are Minn = 6, NU = 7 (via beating MSU), OSU = 8, UM = 9.

    Scenario #4. Minn beats UM, OSU beats NU

    Seeds are OSU = 6 (via win over PSU, but this is complicated), Minn = 7, UM = 8, NW = 9.

    I would say that scenarios 1 and 2 are both fine (obviously). I love the idea of getting PSU in the BTT, but we’ve shown we can beat Illinois or Purdue.

    Scenario 4 is rough, but there’s some hope there with the way the rest of the bubble has fallen apart.

    Scenario 3 is a nightmare. Not only does UM come in 9th in the league, we end up playing OSU on Thursday in the BTT, and that has disaster and #3 seed in the NIT written all over it.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Andy: I agree, scenario three is by far the worst. That would be devastating.

  • Andy

    looking at rlc’s breakdown, I may not understand the tie breaker right. I thought if head to heads didn’t solve it, record against the first place team came next (MSU).

  • ch125

    Let’s just hope and pray that we don’t have to see Hightower or Burr on Saturday. Something tells me, given the magnitude of the game, that those douchebags will be there

  • steveo

    Scenario 3 = absolute disaster and NIT.
    Scenario 1 & 2 = NCAA
    Scenario 4 = NIT most likely

    Beat Minny!

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Updated RPIs from WarrenNolan
    Michigan 44
    PSU 59, Minny 31, Purdue 33, OSU 40, NW 71, Iowa 116

    Providence 70, South Car 47

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    Also Illinois’ RPI only fell 1 spot to 21 with the loss at PSU. I don’t think our RPI would fall much more than 1 or 2 spots with a loss at the Barn.

  • ch125

    9 B10 teams have RPI 71 or better, including 7 in the top 44. If that’s not deserving of 8 bids idk what the hell is

  • Giddings

    I’m very pleasantly surprised that Illinois’ RPI only dropped to 21. It’s key to hold onto at least 3 Top 25 wins… (a Purdue win against MSU would likely change that to 4 Top 25 wins)

  • IX

    Cal/Arizona on FSN right now, Zona up 1 with 18 minutes to go. We’d rather have Cal win since they’re more in than Arizona, but I feel Arizona is going to get in regardless.

    PSU is a lock now, dang! Still feel they would’ve found a way in even with a loss tonight.

    Overall though, we had a bunch of stuff go right for us this week. I really hope our team realizes this game Saturday is more important than any game in recent Michigan basketball history.

    This game being on the road just makes me worry. I still feel we have the Tommy Amaker road curse on us. We must limit the turnovers and shoot well. Unless Minnesota shoots like 60% I feel we’ll be in the game the whole time. We’ve had so much time to prepare for this that if we lose we don’t deserve a spot in the tournament. If it’s close the last four minutes I hope we take good shots like Manny driving to the hoop or Deshawn making a nice inside move, not a 3-pointer by Deshawn. I also hope Zack Gibson plays little because it just scares me seeing him on the court because each time he touches the ball I feel a turnover coming.

    GO BLUE, PLEASE BEAT MINNESOTA!

  • ch125

    Just checked this out, but if Arizona were to lose tonight, their conference record would be 8-9 w/ Stanford left. They would be identical to us in RPI wins i believe, at 5-9 vs top 50 and 9-11 vs top 100.

    With almost Identical resumes, who do you think gets the edge. Michigan in a better conference or Arizona b/c they would only be the 5th team from that conference??

    Their wins vs top 100 are 8,14,22,40,46,56,90,93,99
    one bad loss vs 109
    road record 2-9

    Our wins vs top 100 are 2,19,22,33,34,66,72,72,81
    one bad loss vs 115
    road record 2-8

  • amfm

    Everyone hates Andy’s scenario 3 and rightfully so….. but I have to say if there were any way to get into the NCAA tournament that would be a dream come true. I understand we match up horribly against OSU and MSU, but if we pulled it off, it would be back to back wins against our biggest rivals in order to punch our ticket to the dance. On top of that, it might send Ohio St. to the NIT.

    That being said, lets just beat Minny on Saturday and avoid what would probably happen in that scenario.

  • http://www.umhoops.com Dylan

    If we both go 9-9 I like us over Arizona but if they go 9-9 and we go 8-10 I think they get the nod. It’ll be interesting though because the Big Ten is stronger than the Pac10 this year. I don’t see Stanford beating them on their home floor for their fifth straight loss though.

  • IX

    Cal 83, Arizona 77 Final!

  • Giddings

    UCLA dropped 2 spots to #25 tonight after destroying Oregon State. My guess is they will drop out of the Top 25 even if they beat Oregon this weekend… so let’s hope they make a good run in the Pac-10 Tourney.

  • Kris

    ch125:

    I looked at it deeper b/w us and Arizona and going into this weekend, here is the story (by the way, the Committee claims they don’t look @ Conferences when picking teams, for what it’s worth)

    Michigan

    5-9 vs. Top 50, 9-11 vs. Top 100, 2-8 on Road, SOS 9, RPI 47.
    Top 50 wins @ Home vs. Duke (2), Illinois (19), Purdue (34), Minny (32) & win Neutral vs. UCLA (23).

    Arizona

    5-9 vs. Top 50, 9-11 vs. Top 100, 2-9 on Road, SOS 34, RPI 45.
    Top 50 wins @ Home vs. Kansas (8), Washington (14), UCLA (23), S.D. St. (46) & win Neutral vs. Gonzaga (37).

    Stripping that down, I like our win vs. UCLA better being Neutral instead of on our home court. I like our Duke win better than their Kansas win, their Washington win better than our Illinois win, our Purdue & their Gonzaga wins being a wash, and our Minny win better than their S.D. St. win.

    All in all, I like our Top 50 wins better. They’ve lost 4 straight now and our SOS is a lot better. Eerily similar resume’s, especially when looking at worst losses with ours vs. Iowa and theirs vs. Stanford. Hopefully they can manage to lose to Stanford again!

  • Giddings

    Don’t forget to include Last 10 or Last 12 games in there, that is one category where Arizona has a slight edge.

  • gooter9

    The dreaded last 10 games…

  • ZRL

    How South Carolina is even on the bubble is beyond me. They have no top 50 rpi wins and on ESPN they just showed their resume with a “quality” win section of Auburn and Florida. Seriously? Throw in a loss to Charleston and they look like an NIT 4 seed to me.

  • IX

    The SEC is so bad this season that the winner of their conference tournament does not even deserve an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament!

  • rlc

    Andy -

    Your understanding is correct. But if tied teams have the same winning pct against #1, then they’re compared against #2, #3, and so on until the tie is broken. I just listed the tiebreaker that applied in each case.

    But – I forgot to update the tiebreaks for the possibility that PSU is seeded #2. And I made a mistake in adding up Northwestern’s record in the 4 way tie scenario (your calculation is right).

    Too many possibilities to do by hand – just beat Minnesota and win a couple of games in the tournament, OK?

  • JimC

    So, in advance of Dylan’s Scouting MN post, here’s MN’s lineup:

    6’0″ G Westbrook 12.3 PPG
    6’7″ F Johnson 9.3 PPG
    6’1″ G Nolen 7.1 PPG
    6’4″ G Hoffarber 6.8 PPG
    6’11″ C R. Sampson 6.2 PPG
    6’10″ F Iverson 5.7 PPG

    Doesn’t look so huge. I couldn’t remember how big their lineup was, and so looked it up.

    Didn’t Sims have a big game against them at Crisler.

  • jamie mac

    Arizona has lost 4 games in a row. Doesnt that kind of negate the slight edge they may have over UM vis a vis final 10-12 games?

    You never want to be on a losing streak in March.

    I thought the Cal win was a huge result in favor of UM.

  • Chad Jones

    Lunardi has us in his Last 4 in.

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